Interview with Mr. Arnaud de SEDE April 2005
Mr. Arnaud de SEDE is one of the children of Gerard de SEDE. He recently
produced an Internet site dedicated to the memory of his father whose work is
not summarized in his books on Gisors or Rennes-le-Chateau.
He agreed to answer some question about the character who is celebrated for
bringing us "The Gold of Rennes".
Interview carried out by Internet in April 2005. Gerard de SEDE
Dr. Arnaud de SEDE
OCTONOVO : Can you present yourself? :
Arnaud de SEDE: Arnaud Guilhem de Sède de Liéoux, son of Géraud-Marie,
known as Gerard and of Marie-Andree known as Sophie de Sède, born on July 9,
1958 in Les Landes.
English specialist, student of Henri Adamczewski, I am interested
particularly in the subjacent mechanisms of language. I do not dedicate any
interest in particular to the occultism but I respect the search of those which
take unusual routes honestly, while being attentive with the naivety and the
lack of vigilance of [those] who [attempt to] make proof. I hardly appreciate
the peremptory assertions and I make a point of announcing uncertainties
particularly when they are obvious. My interest for the completely profane
business of Rennes-le-Chateau:, is related to the fact that it represents one
important moment in my life. It seems on this subject that a certain number of
points remain to elucidate. I am posed as a defender of any thesis but certain
assumptions seem more plausible to me than others.
89: How would introduce generally your father Gerard de Sède? His
life, his work?
Arnaud de Sède: Gerard de Sède lived thirty-seven years before I
appeared on this planet, he travelled much and moved away from his family for a
time. If I know the man very well, his life still comprises for me some
mysteries. We had, him and me close connections and our sights converged on a
great number of points. It is nevertheless neither to respect him nor to pay
truly homage to him to gum the errors which he could make the more so as his
desire of truth was truly above any suspicion.
Born on June 5, 1921 in Paris, he quickly took his distance from the ideology
monarchist of his family and with the catholic religion in which he was high but
he was very conscious of his origins as well, social and geographical. With the
source of this rupture there is the sudden revelation of the hypocritical
contradiction between the speech and the practice with regard to the poor.
Gerard de Sède always took the party of oppressed, including, when the
opportunity arose, with the danger of his own life. With a very high crop of
field knowledge and a shining intellect, he was endowed with an exceptional
capacity of abstraction but he had often evil to assimilate the concrete aspects
of life. Perfectly able to include/understand a mathematical reasoning complexes
(to see him carrying out a difficult operation was a rather amusing experiment
), anything of what touched with concrete was not appropriate to him, which did
not prevent him from devoting to all kinds of activities, with passion, with
variable successes. He was thus prey to contradictions which, considered by far,
could seem curious and it sometimes took him much time to realize that he was on
a false trial. His writings can be classified in 4 types: arts persons,
philosophical, political and para-histories. Only the latter, to his great
regret, were a real success. More half of its work remains almost ignored. Great
stages of his life:
1921 - 1931: family mould. Between Paris and Liéoux, the cradle of its
family. Only son, Father often absent. Mother at the same time authoritative and
choking. Must conform to the plans envisaged by the ambitions of his medium, he
found refuge near his grand' mother, her uncles and his aunts [who were] much
1931-1936: Entered into college. Opening on the external world. Meetings with
new ideas. Lived experiment of the Popular Front and indirectly in the Spanish
civil war. Radical change in his way of thinking. Ideological rupture.
1936-1939: end of the secondary studies, baccalaureat, studies of right and
literature. Philosophical readings. Met with surrealists. Political engagements.
Visions critical of the USSR. First writings (philosophical and political). Met
1939-1945: political engagement more extremely. Armed resistance. Experiment
of clandestinity and the prison. Military experiment. First writings published.
Contacts with the resistance intellectuals. Journalism.
1945-1956: studies of philosophy under the aegis of G Bachelard. Continuation
of the stopped journalistic career that and there by ideological conflicts.
Exercise of various professions, was a few times in Yugoslavia. Work for agency
UP, the radio and various reviews. Continuation of the work of writing
(literary, philosophical and politics), close contacts with the intellectual
mediums. No work published. Beginning of a life of family.
1956-1959: contradictions between professional life and political standpoint
(war in Algeria etc...) sudden conversion with agriculture. Return in
provisional south-west then installation in the Eure, meets with Roger Lhomoy.
1959-1966: returned to Paris. Permanent work with AFP. Publish the Small
Encyclopaedia of the Great Families then, Templiers: this change of direction:
the fact of knowing in his writings para-histories.
1966-1988: progressive family rupture. End of collaboration with Sophie.
Always work with AFP. Entered Canard Enchaîné, worked for Historia etc...
Various publications. lived in Paris then traverses the world.
1988-1992: new rupture. Leave France: Nicaragua then Belgium. Mother died on
February 29. Returned to France.
1992-2004: Joined again with Sophie. New collaboration. Lives in Combination.
Various publications. the last 2 books published. Died in the night from the 29
to May 30, 2004 in Montlucon.
89: Concerning the business of Gisors and its true relations with
Arnaud de Sède: The only version that I know (to be supposed that it
has others of them) is that in 1959 in Villers (de Eure), Roger Lhomoy came to
be engaged as farm labourer. He tells his history. Following that, an article is
published in a review of which I am unaware of the name. This article causes
curious reactions, in particular that of certain Pierre Plantard. An interview
is agreed between them; the book on the "Templiers" is published a [short while]
89: Concerning Pierre Plantard?
Arnaud de Sède: Opinions of the beginning (not shared with Sophie de
SEDE): strange character, rather attractive, suspect in certain connections but
nevertheless interesting. Seemed to know some much about the subject. Useful
thus for the continuation. An assumption to be checked, in my opinion, brings a
new lighting on the business of the Templiers by providing the keys of an
interpretation occultist: Gerard de Sède had never considered the subject
before, at least to my knowledge. Another assumption, noncontradictory with the
preceding one: Gerard de Sède would have agreed to compromises to have
documents. Opinions at the end (but I do not know when to locate the end...):
Swindler Manipulator. Obsessed by a mythical affiliation. Founder of a Priory
of Sion entirely can.
Former Collaborator. I seek to pass on the thesis of mild nutters at all
Rupture: I do not know it precisely but obviously forces when Plantard used
Lincoln (or conversely!) to swallow his "theory".
Important remark: It is certain that Plantard is not at the origin of the
business of Rennes, unless supposing a very improbable collusion with M.de
Ligerie. He on the other hand obviously sought with the vampiriser while
claiming to know some more, which is very different. Moreover, Plantard seems to
miss completely writings on Cathares: "collaboration" with my father was not
permanent. Lastly, the nature and the biography of the two men return the
assumption of a not very probable complicity.
89: How was the book the Gold of Rennes built?
Arnaud de Sède: With the originator: statements of Mr. de Ligerie.
First file carried out by Sophie de Sède then, apparently collaboration between
Gerard de Sède and various documentalist of which probably Plantard . Drafting
strictly speaking: Gerard de Sède only. Apparently visible traces of filtering
of the thesis of Plantard. On the end: Gerard de Sède turned the back
definitively to a business which it considered polluted by the lies and
handling. He always believed in discovered compromising documents and the
implication of Saunière in Parisian the occultists mediums. He wondered about
the true nature of these documents. Several assumption are plausible but
completely unverifiable. My father was dissatisfied to see his work exploited by
others. Not to forget that Gerard de Sède wrote only the Gold of Rennes and not
to neglect what he said in "the file, impostures".
89: Which was myth of Gisors in Rennes le génèse le Chateau?
Arnaud de Sède: I do not know. My feeling (it is a little abrupt, I am
appropriate about it!) is that the bond was created of all parts by the
"Plantardiens" and that the relation is very largely drawn by the hair. Movement
of mood: Templier tends to appear each time that there is a lined blow, in
particular an operation politico-sectaro-gangster and some gogos with détrousser
or to mobilize around a doubtful cause. The orders of knighthood cans are
legions and nothing is worth the invocation of large and mysterious ancestors to
attract the naive ones or to inculcate the idea to them that they hold fabulous
secrecies and that they are promised with a great destiny. Moreover, the
principle of the Grand secret Master makes it possible to make gober about
anything with the simple spirits... The receipt is not new. With my direction
the initiatory search requires engagements which are not with the range of the
come first and which are hardly compatible with the ideology or the way of life
of small middle-class men in white cape. If the bovarysme mystico-chivalrous
always makes receipt, it makes me smile only to half. In addition, the
Templier myth must much with the Frank-English Masonry (there are some reasons
for that) and it is only very partially founded on verifiable historical
elements. Symbolism esoteric is a thing (and a sizeable thing) but well a moment
ago or it is necessary to examine the facts, to neglect that seems me to be a
Octonovo - Arnaud de SEDE